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Clief Notes

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44 contributions to Clief Notes
First real retainer starts in three weeks!!! Here's the whole plan, tell me what I got wrong
Closed my first real retainer last month and I start in three weeks!! Putting the whole plan here because I'd rather find out now what I got wrong than in month three The situation. Family holding in LatAm, retail plus financial services, several companies under it. Monthly retainer, four hours a day on site, three months to start. What they want is the stuff that lives in three or four people's heads: why decisions get made the way they do, what got tried before, what broke. Written down, and answerable in plain language. The long game is a private system per founding partner, for succession. I'm one guy. Nothing signed yet... The plan for the first 3 months: Month 1 is entirely non-technical. Map where the knowledge actually lives, which folders, which spreadsheets, whose head. Then measure a baseline before touching anything: how long it takes someone to find an answer today, how often the person who knows gets interrupted. Without that number, nothing I build later can be compared to anything Month 2, a small non-sensitive corpus goes in and a second real user starts using it. Then a hand-written eval set built with their own person. Twenty to thirty questions, expected answer, expected source document, plus negative controls where the right answer is "no record of that" Month 3 is the part I care about. Week 11 I don't open the system at all, and we count how many queries happened without me. That's the acceptance criterion, written into the contract: the designated users operate it without the consultant present. Hard to fake on purpose Three calls I made that I'm not certain about: Cloud with a zero-retention agreement instead of on-prem, even though they asked for maximum privacy. My reasoning: on-prem means weeks of importing hardware before anything exists, the models that fit in an office server are worse, and buying only makes sense once you've measured real usage. So the architecture keeps the corpus and the index on their side and treats the model as a swappable endpoint. Reversible in that direction, not the other one
1 like • 3d
Strong plan, the week 11 test especially. I've set up a few of these for non-technical teams, so two things I'd pressure-test before it goes in the contract. your eval set is your 30 questions, so passing it proves they can run the system you imagined, not the one they actually need. the real adoption signal is the question a user brings that you never wrote down. I'd log those from month 2 on, the gap between your 30 and theirs is where month 6 lives. second, the plan doesn't name who keeps the knowledge true after you step back. a corpus like this is only correct on the day you load it, then a process changes or someone reorganizes and nothing errors, it just quietly goes wrong. and the person whose head it came from often has a quiet incentive to let it rot, since the system chips at what made them the one everyone asks. worth naming a maintenance owner now, while you're still in the room.
0 likes • 24h
@Nicolas Patron Uriburu the eval catching you early is the good outcome. you'll trust it less now, which is the right instinct. on the maintenance owner: I stopped handing it to whoever's most organized and gave it to whoever's work breaks first when a fact rots. a dedicated librarian has no skin in it and won't notice the rot; the person who eats the bad output notices in a day. so it's usually whoever sits closest to the client-facing work, not a back-office seat. costs them a little time, but they were the one getting burned either way.
How do you stop an agent from trusting a fact that quietly went stale?
Most of my reference layer is facts the agent treats as true: this contact prefers X, that endpoint lives here, this rule still applies. the trouble isn't wrong facts, it's facts that were true when I wrote them and quietly went false. nothing errors, the agent just confidently uses a dead one. I've tried an expiry date per fact and a re-check pass at the start of a session, but expiry is mostly a guess and re-checking everything is slow. for anyone keeping a real knowledge layer and not just live workflow state: do you delete a stale fact, overwrite it, or keep it and mark it superseded so the old answer still explains a past decision? and how do you pick what's worth re-verifying versus what you just trust? curious what's actually held up for you.
0 likes • 3d
@Jorge Castro the change-cycle bit is the part I underrated. for facts with a rhythm, renewals or price tables, that turns expiry from a guess into a schedule. the ones I still can't crack are the facts with no cycle at all, the ones that die from an event you never saw coming. expiry never catches those. did anything work for you there, or do those just need a human to notice?
0 likes • 24h
@Jorge Castro that's the part that lands for me. asking "what breaks if it's wrong" instead of "how old is this fact" is the shift I kept missing. the no-cycle ones felt unsolvable while I was trying to predict when they'd die; move the check to the moment a fact gets consumed and weight it by blast radius, and I don't have to predict anything. cheap reversible reads run as-is and tell me when they died, the expensive ones get re-read from source right before they fire. puts the cost on the handful of actions that can actually hurt instead of every fact every run.
Is anyone commercializing ICM as a Product or SaaS?
I am running an ICM knowledge base for my engineering company using GitHub, VS Code, and Claude Code. The efficiency gains in our workflows have been massive, and I see a clear opportunity to offer this to other regional companies as a new business unit. ​However, this dev-centric stack creates too much friction to be presented directly as a product to non-technical clients. ​The model I envision starts with heavy consulting to align the client's processes and culture. Once maturity is reached, it transitions into a managed service: issue tracking, periodic context pruning, and ad-hoc consulting for new agentic features. ​Has anyone here successfully commercialized this philosophy? I am particularly interested in how you package the delivery and abstract the technical friction (like the IDE and repo management) for the end user. Are there platforms already solving this?
2 likes • 7d
I run this across a group of companies that are all non-technical, so this one hits home. I've landed close to where you moved to, but with one shift: the variance everyone's naming (hand-holding, how much they've already written down) doesn't get absorbed, it gets fenced. what killed my margin early was letting clients edit the structure freely. give a non-technical team write access to the folders and drift comes right back, and every drift is a support call, so the "product" quietly rots into bespoke consulting again. so now they operate through a narrow interface that only reads and does constrained writes, and the structure has one owner: me, or honestly an automated janitor that flags stale files, dead links, anything that moved. that piece I can actually price, because it's bounded and repeats identically per client. the process-mapping and culture work stays on a consulting meter, never in a seat price. the cost nobody puts in the model is the one Mike named upthread: the demos and the re-explaining. that's not delivery, it's sales, and it's brutal. I'd carry it as CAC, not onboarding. for those further along on pricing, are you keeping structural write access after handoff, or handing it over and charging the re-cleanups as they come?
1 like • 5d
@Martin Brion building your own for control is the right instinct, but the tool matters less than where you put the write boundary, so I'd lock that down before the stack. clients should touch a thin surface (forms, approvals, a dashboard) and never the structure itself. they propose, the system writes. the moment a non-technical client can edit the folders directly, drift comes straight back, and every drift is a support call. that's the exact economics that sank Forestry. so build the smallest app that hides the dev stack for one workflow you already run well, ship it, and widen the surface only when a paying client pushes on it. building the general platform first just gold-plates seams nobody asked for yet. what's the one workflow your first client would pay for on day one?
Folders are great until state starts moving. what I pulled out (and what I kept)
I'm deep in ICM like everyone here and folders still carry most of my work. but I kept getting bitten by the same class of bug, and it wasn't a folder problem, it was a state problem: what's running, what's half-done, who owns the next move, what's safe to resume. that stuff changes by the hour, and a folder is a bad place to keep something that changes by the hour. so I stopped forcing it. the map stays in folders, the live state moved to rows. four things actually held. One writer. agents propose, exactly one process commits. the two-agents-edited-one-record mess disappears the day you stop letting every step write. Every touch gets a timestamp. not for audit theatre, for staleness. "is this stale" stops being a feeling and becomes a query: anything open and untouched for N days gets flagged. Done means the effect exists, not that the code reached the line. a step isn't allowed to mark itself done; something else confirms the artifact is really there first, or a clean run that produced nothing quietly poisons every retry after it. Folders still win for anything a human reads: context, knowledge, the map an agent walks. I didn't move that to a database and wouldn't. rows are only for the stuff that moves. what I'm still unsure about is when to make the jump. too early and you've built a database to hold six rows, too late and you're debugging drift at 2am. the real signal for me was the third time I couldn't answer "what state is this in right now" without opening five files. where do you draw that line? what made you move state out of folders, or what's kept you from it?
1 like • 6d
@Jim Tyndall the worse one for me: two sessions read the same state, both act, both write different files, so git never conflicts and both "succeed", but one of the two effects quietly isn't real anymore. nothing tangles, nothing errors. git can't see it because the bytes never overlap. what made it loud again was a version on the state row plus compare-and-swap on every write: if the rev moved since you read, you lost, and you hear about it at write time. are you seeing yours only at commit because git is still serializing you, or because nothing's truly concurrent yet?
1 like • 5d
@Carla Bosteder I don't teach it both. the folder is the only thing it opens cold, and one line in the root points at where live state lives plus the key to look it up by. it holds the address, not the rows. then a step reads a row only when it's about to act, by id, never as a preload. so the map stays in context and state gets pulled lazily, one row at a time, at the moment a step needs "what's running / who owns the next move." loading both up front is the thing that rots: you end up holding a snapshot that's already stale by the time you act on it.
How do you make a scheduled agent safe to re-run after it dies halfway?
I run a few agents on a schedule — ones that read some inputs and then do things with side effects: send a summary, write a record, flip a status somewhere. The happy path is fine. My worry is the failed run. The cron fires again, or I re-run it by hand, and now I'm nervous it'll redo the half it already finished: a second email, a duplicate record, a status changed twice. Today I lean on a checkpoint file. The run marks each side-effect done before moving on, and on restart it skips whatever's already marked. It works but feels brittle, since the mark and the action aren't atomic — a crash between them can still double-fire. How do you handle re-runs? Idempotency at the destination (dedupe keys, upserts)? A ledger the run reads first? Splitting read from write so the write step is the only thing that has to be safe? Curious what's actually held up for you in real unattended runs.
0 likes • 9d
@Aaron Kruger Separate, deliberately. Early on I kept it beside the run's own output and got bitten right there: the restart that wipes the workspace also wipes the record of what already finished, so the resume reads nothing and replays from zero. Now it lives in durable storage the crash and the pre-run cleanup can't reach, and the "done" mark lands there before I treat the side effect as real. Workspace stays disposable; the memory of what happened doesn't sit inside it. Do you key yours per run id or per logical step? That's usually where I see the two get colocated and the resume quietly lost.
0 likes • 7d
@Nicolas Patron Uriburu this is the one that actually scares me, because the checker is only as good as the postcondition you hand it. "artifact exists and has the right shape" still passes when the run writes a well-formed empty: the report file is there, headers and all, zero rows. shape-valid and meaningless. so I stopped tying done to presence and tied it to a count the effect can't fake: row landed, id came back, N > 0, then done. on the silence reading the same both ways, I made the missing success ping the alarm. the job has to emit "finished, produced N", and a watcher fires when that line never shows, so a clean finish and a quiet give-up stop looking identical. in your shape test, are you checking structure only, or something a no-op literally can't fabricate?
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Leo Saraiva
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