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23 contributions to Rock Singing Success
What Techniques For Singing With Grit Tend To Create The Hardest Sounds And Deepest Subharmonics?
I would think that compressed would give more subharmonics and deeper levels of subharmonics than decompressed overlays since the decompressed girt has been described as "smoother" and maybe also because it's a lower effort technique than compression which is high intensity enough that after an A#4 or maybe a B4 it becomes impossible. Besides using compression based grit, is there anything else such as extra constriction or lots of subglottal pressure that would also help make that "hard as granite" sound? I've tried looking into this and the closest thing I could find to answer is that maybe, what I'm after is a "dark" gritty sound and I heard it said that men with wide jaws and big necks tend to create dark sounds while guys with narrow jaws and smaller necks tend to create brighter sounds. Phil Anselmo sings an A#4 in 1:15 of this song when he sings the words "A NEW LEVEL"! ( Link right below) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li91V6m_OR0&list=OLAK5uy_mEdSGtZnpiyztGgEaIYURc_q9S6egIHek&index=2 To me this sounds like straight compression (what you would call upper grunt???) - please let me know if I'm right and if I'm not, then what technqiue does he sing those three words with? Its my understanding that A#4 is very high for straight compression but he seems to be handling it with no problem. I bet he could have done a B4 with the same technique. HERE! He sings.some B4s in the song "MOUTH FOR WAR" with what sounds like all compression when at the 50 second ,mark she starts singing "been constantly so frustrated" - most of these words are sung at B4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3JSbOt7CLo&list=OLAK5uy_mEdSGtZnpiyztGgEaIYURc_q9S6egIHek&index=1 Why is it that we can't go above A#4 or B4 with compression based methods? Is it too hard....Would it just sound bad...Or is it just too dangerous?.
1 like • 18h
just judging from the title, this is the exact question I came here to have answered, or possibly ask. I will read on.
1 like • 15h
@Draven Grey that's crazy. This image shows exactly what I feel and was just about to try to describe to @Kenny Kendall when talking about how to vary the amount of grit using smoker's voice. I've thought for weeks or months now that there's a sweet spot exactly where that diagram shows that I pretty much always try to hit. I use the smoker's voice with compression up and slightly back and take it to the point where it doesn't compress so easily anymore, exactly what is shown in the diagram. And then right there I instead just let the air flow without compression, keeping the same smoker's voice shape. So basically playing back and forth across that arrow is exactly how I feel it, in order to dynamically adjust the amount of grit.
What Is The Key To Varying The Level Of Grit You Sing With?
I've done so much work to try to create as much distortion as guys like Anselmo and Halford that if rather than a metal type distortion, I want more of a Mick Jagger type grit, I don't know how. The false folds are either activated or they're not and when they are, it's like a metal type grit. The lighter, more rock type grit like on "Start Me Up"...I don't know how to do it. If I tried to sing this it would probably sound more like Rob Halford than Mick Jagger. For those who don't know the sound I'm talking about, this is Start Me Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGyOaCXr8Lw&list=RDSGyOaCXr8Lw&start_radio=1 I would think Jagger just isn't activating the false folds as much as Halford does, but with me, it's like my false fold are either on or off.
0 likes • Jan 25
@Kenny Kendall I can't really say I'm experienced enough to have a good answer to this. The only way I've reproducibly found to do it so far is being above the threshold of breath support and pulling the C into an L. Below the threshold, it's pretty much always either on or off, at least when I'm really consciously focusing on it. I will have to pay more attention as I mess around in the future and see what I can do. I do like to move the placement all around, switching between clean singing and grit back and forth. So I do it plenty, I'm sure, just not necessarily in a very conscious or controlled way. I'll pay attention to the breath support question you raise in particular.
1 like • 15h
@Kenny Kendall I just wanted to reply to this old post because I now have a much better understanding and control over being able to gradually vary the amount of grit. For me, it was all about adding the airiness to the smoker's voice. Once I figured out how to do that, it kind of clicked. It's the difference between a fully compressed smoker's voice where you're sending the air through in spurts versus just letting the air pass through the same shape in a wide flow. Varying the amount (and "width," it feels like) of air, varies the amount of distortion.
Training for cry
When going for the shape, I start feeling this muscle strain in the throat. Am I trying way too hard / doing something wrong, or just having those specific weak muscles 😅. Some background to my singing journey: I've been practicing distortion for the past two years semi regularly. Lately I have finally been able to make all sort of great sounding distorted sounds which feel good while singing. The issue still is that I seem to her a bit hoarse due to thick mucus about half an hour after distorted singing even if the singing feels relaxed and not too pushed. I still feel like I need to somewhat push for the initial distorted coordination but am able to relax once I've found it. I am hoping that this "if you feel like you need to push, cry more instead" approach could solve this!🤘
0 likes • 18h
@Draven Grey just came across this video and it addresses a ton of what I'm dealing with currently. I feel like I'm going to be able to digest this one for weeks coming up.
An Update and Improvements to the Community
It's been a year now since my life was turned upside down after 23 years of marriage. It was odd to spend my 23rd anniversary in a therapist's office not realizing it was only a few months away from everything falling apart rather than launching the next phase of the business I had been planning for years. Even more off to spend my 24th anniversary in a court room, after months of trying to survive and keep on top of an overwhelming amount of paperwork and changes, being self-represented and owning a business that I no longer had control over making everything infinitely more complicated. It's taken me longer to get back on my feet than anticipated, which I should've expected in hindsight. And now I'm having to move in order to help my aging parents. Besides being closer to my parents again and helping them out, this will also benefit me AND YOU a lot too. If I had stayed where I was, it would've still taken me months more to get everything moving that I've been planning for years. This move will allow me to start moving forward sooner rather than later. I'm truly excited about what the next few months will mean for finally moving Rock Singing Success to the next stage. COMMUNITY ROADMAP In the next few months, I have plans to do multiple things with this community to make it more engaging, helpful, and discoverable. The below is a bit of a roadmap that's still being refined. As soon as you get a chance, I could really use your feedback on what you would like to see in each of the following areas: 1. More Active Posting — I'm definitely ramping up my own posts after moving to my new place the beginning of next month. But I'm also considering bringing one of my junior/associate coaches more into the fold. Either way, this means much more regular posts, videos, and shorts, as well as possible challenges, group calls, etc from me and my team. What would you like to see? 2. About Page Overhaul — We'll be cleaning up and enhancing the About Page. The about page has long needed an overhaul to sell people on what this community actually does. As I explore updating my RockSingingLessons.com website with more of what sets me apart from other vocal coaches, I hope to also do more of that here. That means focusing more no showing the results I've helped people get, and sprinkling in my 35 years in production, songwriting, recording, mixing, mastering, performance, etc..., while still focusing on making YOU the hero of the story rather than myself. If you have ideas on what to say or not to say that you believe sets my instruction apart, please say so. I take criticism well, because I truly want to be authentic AND help you and people like you as much as I can.
2 likes • 7d
Glad to hear you're able to move forward now. This could be the start of something really good. 1. Bringing more coaches onto the site sounds great, assuming they all have the same expertise that you do. It certainly is a lot for one person to manage right now. I am intrigued by the "challenges" you mention. 2. The reason I'm on this site rather than somewhere else is you seem to be the one who really knows what you're talking about. And it's translated directly into results for me. Other instructors online kind of seemed like they were still trying to figure it out themselves, or at least how to describe it to someone else. You seem to have a master understanding of the physiology on the one hand, which maybe provides a good base to build descriptions on. If I were to try to pin down one thing that is different about your instruction, it might just be the specific sounds that get you right into the correct shape. For example, cry, sob, smoker's voice, the airiness of the smoker's voice being key, etc. They're almost like cheats, just mundane sounds that it's easy to be familiar with, but as soon as you imitate it you are in the right shape. Not sure how helpful that is, but that's kind of how I see it. Of course getting direct video responses from the instructor is pretty amazing too. 3. Maybe some sort of channel for collaboration? Not sure exactly what that would look like, but it could connect the singing to the rest of the instrumentation underneath it in some way. Connect people in building full songs.
The Secret to Effortless Singing is Cry Vocal Mode
Because of how important Cry is for singing, how often it comes up, and how pretty much all our vocal training is about building better command and control over CRY, I made a quick video about it with some of the new ways I've been teaching it this year. As a vocal mode, the combination of physical and acoustic positioning, Cry has tow main parts: 1. Lift, float, or top-down whimper into the desired sound color from front to back of the mouth (the acoustic mode spectrum: edging, neutral, curbing). The edgier or more forward the position, the higher the larynx wants to move, also narrowing the vocal passage and AES into twang, making the voice ring brighter and project more easily. The thing to watch out for is constricting vertically, which can choke off of the vocal passage. 2. Sob physical quality (as Estill termed it) slightly dampens/relaxes the larynx (not necessarily neutral, but not moving too much), opens the throat, widen the pharynx (feeling like opening or expanding the vocal tract, relaxing vocal production overall, and adding darker harmonics. The thing to watch out for is opening too much and it sounding too operatic, emo, or dopey. Lift and sob together create an open and more effortless feeling in the vocal tract while singing that we call Cry vocal mode. Cry balances the two, helping you get the best of both. This means more effortless vocal fold adduction because medial compression is more passive—like how a stretched rubber band can hold something in the middle, but it's not from directly applying pressure to the middle.
The Secret to Effortless Singing is Cry Vocal Mode
1 like • 24d
So cry is not only good for easily hitting higher range stuff but also what you want for something mid-range? Or would you call something mid-range "sob"? Or is "sob" just the tone color on the one end of the spectrum and the whole spectrum could potentially be cry? I do think I get exactly what the sob position feels like. I'm pretty sure I was just using it a few minutes ago while practicing. I was thinking of it also as widening the vocal tract, not quite as low as the throat, but more like above and below the soft palate, like a yawn, almost like I'm depressing the base of my tongue or trying to half swallow it. I was wondering at the time, is this what you call "the hyoid being active"?
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To the Sun
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@to-the-sun-1207
https://tothesun.bandcamp.com

Active 11h ago
Joined Nov 12, 2025
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